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	<title>Comments on: Complex Algorithm Research and Development: Harder Than Many Think</title>
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	<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/</link>
	<description>Mathematics is wonderful!</description>
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		<title>By: Jorge Durán</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-7241</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Durán</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-7241</guid>
		<description>I have learned a lot reading this very fascinating article. Let me contribute two small remarks:

(1) Economist understand quite well that basic research is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;public good&lt;/a&gt; that we cannot expect to be funded by the private sector. Public research programs of government funded research in universities and institutes are essential. It is not that venture capitalists fail to understand the importance of basic research, it is that, of the large potential (social) returns to a research program, only a small and very uncertain share of (private) returns are appropriable by the investors.

(2) Concerning the &lt;em&gt;&quot;[...] lessons of the complex financial models involved in the current global financial crisis,&quot;&lt;/em&gt; I would say that the flaw was not technical but conceptual: many did not seem to understand the limitations of the theories behind the mathematical models on which these software tools stood. Those theories were reasonable in smooth phases of the business cycle but useless during a recession; not to speak about a recession coupled with a banking crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have learned a lot reading this very fascinating article. Let me contribute two small remarks:</p>
<p>(1) Economist understand quite well that basic research is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good" rel="nofollow">public good</a> that we cannot expect to be funded by the private sector. Public research programs of government funded research in universities and institutes are essential. It is not that venture capitalists fail to understand the importance of basic research, it is that, of the large potential (social) returns to a research program, only a small and very uncertain share of (private) returns are appropriable by the investors.</p>
<p>(2) Concerning the <em>&#8220;[...] lessons of the complex financial models involved in the current global financial crisis,&#8221;</em> I would say that the flaw was not technical but conceptual: many did not seem to understand the limitations of the theories behind the mathematical models on which these software tools stood. Those theories were reasonable in smooth phases of the business cycle but useless during a recession; not to speak about a recession coupled with a banking crisis.</p>
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		<title>By: Boyd Moore</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-7235</link>
		<dc:creator>Boyd Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-7235</guid>
		<description>That paper is very interesting.  When I started teaching CSc., the first course was based on a simulated machine language w/ only 10 instructions and 100 memory locations.  So the syntax could be learned in one week.  Then I assigned problems to solve (after, of course, many examples).  I was fascinated to find that I could divide the class after the first programming assignment into 2 groups:  those who could create an algorithm and those who could not.  And I struggled the rest of the time at that college ( I taught there from 73 to 77 ) to find a way to teach that ability, never really finding it.

In physics, which I was primarily teaching, the students could &quot;fake&quot; thinking by memorizing their way through it, and could work problems as long as they had seen problems that required the same &quot;algorithm&quot;.  But in computer programming, there is a much greater range of type of problems to tackle, and you have to be able to invent an algorithm for each situation.

I think most colleges have never found a break-through to this hurdle in C.Sc., and, consequently, C.Sc. depts. have &quot;dumbed-down&quot; the curriculum in order to produce graduates, many of which, still cannot invent an algorithm - hence a huge work force of lousy programmers.

One further thought about it:  I also found (mainly in my 2 sons) that the &quot;ability for algorithm invention&quot; comes, if at all, with mental age.  I am convinced that many high schoolers and underclassmen are not at that &quot;age&quot; until later - maybe 25 or 30 years old.  But by then, the mold has been set, and they never try again.  Our educational system doesn&#039;t encourage that, especially in Europe, and possibly in India.  In U.S., many go to college after being in the work force for years, and then they find they can do things mentally that never knew they could do before then.  And it is simply because their &quot;brains&quot;  have caught up with their &quot;bodies&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That paper is very interesting.  When I started teaching CSc., the first course was based on a simulated machine language w/ only 10 instructions and 100 memory locations.  So the syntax could be learned in one week.  Then I assigned problems to solve (after, of course, many examples).  I was fascinated to find that I could divide the class after the first programming assignment into 2 groups:  those who could create an algorithm and those who could not.  And I struggled the rest of the time at that college ( I taught there from 73 to 77 ) to find a way to teach that ability, never really finding it.</p>
<p>In physics, which I was primarily teaching, the students could &#8220;fake&#8221; thinking by memorizing their way through it, and could work problems as long as they had seen problems that required the same &#8220;algorithm&#8221;.  But in computer programming, there is a much greater range of type of problems to tackle, and you have to be able to invent an algorithm for each situation.</p>
<p>I think most colleges have never found a break-through to this hurdle in C.Sc., and, consequently, C.Sc. depts. have &#8220;dumbed-down&#8221; the curriculum in order to produce graduates, many of which, still cannot invent an algorithm &#8211; hence a huge work force of lousy programmers.</p>
<p>One further thought about it:  I also found (mainly in my 2 sons) that the &#8220;ability for algorithm invention&#8221; comes, if at all, with mental age.  I am convinced that many high schoolers and underclassmen are not at that &#8220;age&#8221; until later &#8211; maybe 25 or 30 years old.  But by then, the mold has been set, and they never try again.  Our educational system doesn&#8217;t encourage that, especially in Europe, and possibly in India.  In U.S., many go to college after being in the work force for years, and then they find they can do things mentally that never knew they could do before then.  And it is simply because their &#8220;brains&#8221;  have caught up with their &#8220;bodies&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Locklin</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-7214</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Locklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-7214</guid>
		<description>Excellent, excellent stuff.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The dream algorithm R&amp;D tool would be similar to Matlab or Mathematica but could be compiled to fast, efficient binaries similar to ANSI C and would be available for all platforms.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

By the way, what you&#039;re looking for exists already. I&#039;ve been fiddling with building trading systems in it for the last year or so.
http://lush.sf.net

Others may prefer Common Lisp (I prefer CMU-CL to SBCL for lots of different reasons), but I don&#039;t think there is enough numerics developed for CL to justify this assertion. Chicken ain&#039;t bad either, though it has the same problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent, excellent stuff.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The dream algorithm R&amp;D tool would be similar to Matlab or Mathematica but could be compiled to fast, efficient binaries similar to ANSI C and would be available for all platforms.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>By the way, what you&#8217;re looking for exists already. I&#8217;ve been fiddling with building trading systems in it for the last year or so.<br />
<a href="http://lush.sf.net" rel="nofollow">http://lush.sf.net</a></p>
<p>Others may prefer Common Lisp (I prefer CMU-CL to SBCL for lots of different reasons), but I don&#8217;t think there is enough numerics developed for CL to justify this assertion. Chicken ain&#8217;t bad either, though it has the same problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Myths of technological progress &#171; Locklin on science</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-7213</link>
		<dc:creator>Myths of technological progress &#171; Locklin on science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-7213</guid>
		<description>[...] problems: something I&#8217;ve dedicated a good fraction of the last two years of my life to: http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/ Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Joan Cusack: The TV Squad InterviewVa. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] problems: something I&#8217;ve dedicated a good fraction of the last two years of my life to: <a href="http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/" rel="nofollow">http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/</a> Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Joan Cusack: The TV Squad InterviewVa. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dotan Cohen</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-6954</link>
		<dc:creator>Dotan Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-6954</guid>
		<description>You might want to take a look at Python, which has the GUI / networking features that you are looking for, and has very good math libraries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might want to take a look at Python, which has the GUI / networking features that you are looking for, and has very good math libraries.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Jackson</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-6945</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-6945</guid>
		<description>FYI: MATLAB can be compiled as well; I haven&#039;t run any speed comparisons between the interpreted and compiled versions though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI: MATLAB can be compiled as well; I haven&#8217;t run any speed comparisons between the interpreted and compiled versions though.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Dwinnell</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-6943</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Dwinnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-6943</guid>
		<description>In many case, I don&#039;t doubt that you&#039;re right in saying that, for performance reasons, deployment needs to be moved from Mathematica, MATLAB, etc. to C, C++, etc.  Being a heavy user of MATLAB, I must say that its highly optimized math libraries permit me to perform final execution of my work within MATLAB itself.  I work in data mining, and have not found speed to be a constraining factor with MATLAB.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In many case, I don&#8217;t doubt that you&#8217;re right in saying that, for performance reasons, deployment needs to be moved from Mathematica, MATLAB, etc. to C, C++, etc.  Being a heavy user of MATLAB, I must say that its highly optimized math libraries permit me to perform final execution of my work within MATLAB itself.  I work in data mining, and have not found speed to be a constraining factor with MATLAB.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Johnson</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-6938</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-6938</guid>
		<description>Can we leave off from speculations concerning why our favorite languages were not mentioned? It is beyond the scope of the article to mention them all, speculations concerning marketing muscle are quite beside the point.

The article had a complete enough list to make the author&#039;s point, and the author did make it well.

BTW: some of us have heard LISP aficionados sing its lisping praises for so long, we no longer believe it when someone claims such and such version of LIST &quot;fits that bill&quot;. Especially not when the manual is still a work in progress!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we leave off from speculations concerning why our favorite languages were not mentioned? It is beyond the scope of the article to mention them all, speculations concerning marketing muscle are quite beside the point.</p>
<p>The article had a complete enough list to make the author&#8217;s point, and the author did make it well.</p>
<p>BTW: some of us have heard LISP aficionados sing its lisping praises for so long, we no longer believe it when someone claims such and such version of LIST &#8220;fits that bill&#8221;. Especially not when the manual is still a work in progress!</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Vickson</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-6936</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Vickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-6936</guid>
		<description>Why do you fail to mention Maple? It is widely used in Mathematics, Science and Engineering, and compares favorably with Mathematica. Admittedly, Mathematica has more powerful marketing than Maple, so maybe that has dazzled you and clouded your judgement.

R.G. Vickson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you fail to mention Maple? It is widely used in Mathematics, Science and Engineering, and compares favorably with Mathematica. Admittedly, Mathematica has more powerful marketing than Maple, so maybe that has dazzled you and clouded your judgement.</p>
<p>R.G. Vickson</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Lewis</title>
		<link>http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/comment-page-1/#comment-6933</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://math-blog.com/?p=193#comment-6933</guid>
		<description>Odd that you didn&#039;t mention Maple, if you mention Mathematica.

You should note other free systems, like Sage and Fermat.

More importantly, I am surprised that you don&#039;t mention encryption algorithms like RSA, which use more sophisticated mathematics, at the junior/senior undergraduate math major level. There are new encryption algorithms based on elliptic curves that use more advanced mathematics than that.  

Also, I think you underestimate the kind of mathematics involved in GPS systems.

- Robert H. Lewis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Odd that you didn&#8217;t mention Maple, if you mention Mathematica.</p>
<p>You should note other free systems, like Sage and Fermat.</p>
<p>More importantly, I am surprised that you don&#8217;t mention encryption algorithms like RSA, which use more sophisticated mathematics, at the junior/senior undergraduate math major level. There are new encryption algorithms based on elliptic curves that use more advanced mathematics than that.  </p>
<p>Also, I think you underestimate the kind of mathematics involved in GPS systems.</p>
<p>- Robert H. Lewis</p>
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